HISTORY WANTED

[tinawalker]

ONCE AGAIN I AM ASKING IF ANY OF OUR MEMBERS HAVE GOT ANY KNOWLEDGE AT ALL OF THE PAST LIFE OF MY 3rd MAY1957 BUILT- BUT REGD 1.1.58, BLACK VANGUARD 3 - 2637 HK? PREFERABLY - IN WHAT CORNISH MUSEUM IT SPENT SO MANY YEARS AFTER A PREVIOUS RETIREMENT. DID ANY OF YOU EVER OWN IT OR DRIVE IT, OR DID A RELATIVE OWN IT? OR WAS IT YOUR NEIGHBOURS CAR OR THE LOCAL COPS CAR?

THE ONLY INFO I HAVE IS THAT IT WAS SAID TO HAVE SPENT ABOUT 30 YEARS IN A CORNISH MUSEUM, (WHERE?), AND WAS SOLD AT AUCTION AT St. AUSTEL IN 1995 - SAID TO HAVE BEEN "IN A DERELICT STATE". WITH 7 OTHER OWNERS BETWEEN THEN AND ME IN 2001.

SO ANYONE, WHERE WAS IT, WHAT WAS IT DOING IN IT'S LIFE, WHO OWNED IT, DID YOU EVER OWN IT, DO YOU KNOW WHO DID? ANY INFO WILL BE APPRECIATED. MANY THANKS TINA

[falmouth]

Hello Tina,
In reply to your query, the only motor museum which fits your description was "Automobilia" at St.Stephen, near St.Austell which closed around late 1990's or early years of this century. The museum was owned by Colin Vincent, a local man. The site was re-developed. Colin did have some unrestored vehicles there when I visited in the dim and distant past, but I cannot remember if there was a Vanguard there. I don't know whether Colin reads this forum, I doubt it, but although I do not know where he lives at the moment he may well put in an appearance at the West of England Steam Engine Society Rally in the middle of August. If he does I will ask him of the car's history , if, of course, it was one of his vehicles. The car is not Cornish-registered not that the Cornwall County Council could ever help you. They very kindly destroyed their vehicle records years ago. Bear with me for a few weeks and I 'll see if we can make some progress.
Kind regards from sunny(at the moment) Cornwall
Brian

[RhylBM2877]

Hi Tina
I think I have already told you this one. Colin Vincent who owned "Automobilia" near St Austell is a member of the Veteran Car Club like myself. I have already asked him and his wife Carol if they use to own your Vanguard. The answer was no - not a Black Vanguard 3. They did own a Vanguard 1, that they still had in storage at the time of me asking him (January 2005) Colin told me that there use to be another motor museum in Cornwall that shut about 1995 but that he couldnt remember where.

Regards
Len Barr

[falmouth]

Hi Tina,
Len is correct, there was another motor museum in Cornwall but only a tiny one and that was at Newquay. It must have closed way back in the early 1990's. I don't know who the owner was but I can work on it. Leave it with me for a day or two.
Regards
Brian

[Ian Leggett]

Just a thought but DVLA might tell you previous owners if you ask them, if not already on log book. They may charge a fee. Regards Ian.

[tinawalker]

Thanks for that. I had already been told a couple of years ago that the car could NOT have been at Automobilia. Any suggestion from me that it might have been, was just a guess, as Automobilia is/was near St Austel, and not based on anything other than it having been sold at auction in St Austel in 1995.

There is evidence that it had spent a long tme sitting outside under a tree that exuded resin, so, I believe it was on show out in the open - if that is of any help, it could be a clue. The cars registration is from ESSEX where it was originally despatched to Lambs Ltd, which is now under the M25 motorway. I have no idea if this reg is the original which was recovered, or not. The info that it had spent about 30 years in a Cornish museum came from the last two owners - a Birmingham Chef (who presumably was responsible for the 'bent' MOT that came with it. The other was the VERY dodgy Birmngham classic car dealer (no longer trading in the UK), who sold it to me. ( I won't go into that now -but it's a story in it self). If it had spent the alleged whole of 30 years in a museum, then it must hve been retired there after about only 7 years in service - which surprises me! I still feel that it just might have been a Police vehicle from some indications on the car when I got it, but again that is just my feeling, as one of our members a couple of years ago, told me it could "NEVER have been a police car", without as far as I know having ever seen the car- despite Devon and Cornwall police using black V3 Vanguards at the time in question - and could even explain why it went to a museum at 7 years old, as opposed to being sold off to the trade. (Perhaps the member who told me that 'knows something' about it that he didn't want me to know - EH?). The log sheet just gives that previous owner (the chef), as an owner- and not the dealer who had not regd. in his name.
The 6 'previous' owners since 1995 were not recorded on the log, and I also doubt if the DVLAs' or Essexs' records still exist that far back. It is an interesting quest though to trace a history, and so far not one of our current club members, who use ths site at least, have been willing to stick their heads up over the papapet and admit they had anything to do with it. ( although I am not really surprised at that, because of the abysmal standard of work that had been done on it up to the time I bought it). Well folks, thanks anyway for the response so far, and keep on diggin'. Tina

[falmouth]

Hi there,
My digging today has resulted in finding out the proprietor's name of the Newquay Motor Museum, but it was only in existence for a few years, so I think that one is a red herring. Why not try the Devon and Cornwall Constabulary records. They have a helpful historian called Simon Dell a P.C. I believe. He is based at Middlemoor, Exeter, he may be able to confirm or deny any involvement of the car with the force. The Constabulary was amalgamated some years ago from several forces but he has overall access to all the records, I think.
Regards,
Brian

[tinawalker]

Thanks Brian, I will try to winkle out the address and have a go at them. If nothing else it could eliminate that thread. Tina

[tinawalker]

I ALSO WONDER IF THIS CAR JUST MIGHT HAVE LIVED AT THE FLAMBARDS MUSEUM NEAR PENZANCE, AS THEY DID HAVE THINGS ON SHOW OUTSIDE IN THE WEATHER. MY ONE HAD VERY OBVIOUSLY SPENT QUITE SOME TIME OUTSIDE UNDER A LIME TREE. ? TINA

[falmouth]

Hi Tina,
Could be Flambards, they did have a few dilapidated vehicles on display around then. It may be worth a phone call. James Hale, I think is the main man.
Let us know how you get on.
Regards,
Brian

[tinawalker]

Hi again, it is a possibility isn't it. Tina

[Kentishphil]

Hi I sugest your contact the Archives Dept of Essex County Council,

Prior to 1974 the County Councils were responsible for issuing Reg nos, and some have kept all the records. I know Kent CC have all the records and friends have visited to do various historical checks

regards

Phil G

[tinawalker]

Someone told me some time ago that Essex had dumped their records a long time ago. If anyone knows different let me know. Tina

[Phil Hetherington]

It appears that Essex have some vehicle archives, but possibly not the year you need:

seax.essexcc.gov.uk/all_results.asp?intSearchType=12&strPath=/MainMenu.asp

You could always call them and ask. In the past, I've found East Sussex to be very helpful. Here are the contact details for Essex:

www.essexcc.gov.uk/vip8/ecc/ECCWebsite/dis/faq.jsp?channelOid=13813&guideOid=null&oid=17360

Or if that doesn't work, the phone number seems to be 01245 244644.

Phil

[tinawalker]

Well I have phoned Flambards and it definitely was never there but the man did suggest several other might have beens to follow up.

I have just tried the Essex Reords office website and come up with a zero return to every question. So looks like another dead end. Tina