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Post by falmouth on Dec 28, 2006 22:09:53 GMT 1
In response to Ian's challenge to start new threads and make 2007 an even more interactive year, I would like to know members thoughts and other contributors too, on the subject of driving our historic cars on motorways.
I used to own a 1949 Triumph Razoredge and was quite confident to cruise at 60mph all day on motorways with modern tinware sailing past me at 85mph most times. Today the SMC consists of many vehicles which can also match my Razoredges' cruising speed, but what of the earlier cars who could maybe put in an odd burst to 50mph every now and again but never manage to constantly hold that speed mile after mile.
These cars were never designed or made to travel at a constant speed ,were they? The roads then were undulating and twisty, the engine constantly had to vary its note to cope with the conditions.
Motorways are boring but how else do we get from A to B quickly these days? My 1924 Kenilworth has only been on a motorway once in my ownership and that was to get around Exeter on the M5 and that was bad enough. Wound up to 45mph for just three miles or so.
Our other vintage car that we use for long distances is a 1933 Austin 7 ( at least until our 1928 Falmouth is finished ) We can generally maintain 50mph and have done so on touring holidays throughout this country, Ireland, Holland, France and Spain. The fact that we have flashing indicators and a reflective triangle on the back does give us more confidence., but the constant speed aspect does bother me, what effect does a constant speed have on a vintage engine?
Unfortunately the International Rally is out for this year as it would take us two days to get there and another two days to get back, by the old roads of course, and my annual leave allowance will not stretech to more than two days over a weekend.
WE DON'T USE TRAILERS!
How do you feel about using your historic vehicle on motorways?
Kind regards to all for the New Year from all of the Devon and Cornwall Group.
Brian Murrish
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Post by Ian Leggett on Dec 28, 2006 22:45:27 GMT 1
Hi Brian, Firstly thanks for making a new thread and I hope it will lead to a good response on this and other threads (hopefully). I will not put much input on this one as with a Vanguard the problems are not so apparent on motorways. There will be a Drivers Conduct Code in the February Review issued by the FBHVC ad it covers this subject. I would just enter a warning. The Highway Agency who now act as Police on many motorways have recently stopped two (separate incidents) drivers were driving too slowly on motorways. This is not their job and the officers were repremanded, but it goes to show how vulnerable slower drivers/ cars can be when everyone is expected to go fast. Of course the reverse is true if you live in a town area where the authorities seem to take great delight in making the traffic move (just) at the slowest pace possible. There was an incident in Suffolk where a local council parked two cars on opposite sides of the road and very close to each other so that it effectively caused a delay in both directions on a straight piece of road in a 30mph area. It lowered the speed down to under 15mph and caused real frustration. Anyway that is another matter.
Happy New Year. Regards Ian.
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Post by alankingston on Dec 29, 2006 16:04:24 GMT 1
One aspect of driving a classic car on the motorway that struck me is the fact that it would be far easier for modern traffic to overtake than if you were on conventional roads. It must be very frustrating for drivers on busy single carriageway roads to be stuck behind an older, slower moving car. However, as Ian mentioned, you could be viewed as driving dangerously slow on a motorway, if your car's comforable cruising speed is 30-40 mph.
I don't speak from a great deal of experience as my classic driving has been fairly local, and only in the last 7-8 months.
It would be interesting to hear from drivers of pre, and immediate post war models for their experiences on longer runs.
Alan Kingston
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Post by falmouth on Dec 29, 2006 17:36:26 GMT 1
Many thanks for the comments made on the subject by Ian and Alan. One point I didn't make was when we go on holiday with others in our vintage cars, we ensure that there are no more than five in each of out little group. Bearing mind that on the open road we can cruise at 45-50mph, we are still courteous enough to pull over when moderns are behind.
If on motorways(Boo-Hiss) we tend to drive with fifty yards or so between each car so that moderns can see that there is a group of us in close proximity; there is thus less tendency for them to overtake then pull in in front then have to change lanes again to pass the next one with the added risk of the lane change.
We also tend to spread out more when approaching intersections so that moderns can safely slip into a larger slot when a slip road is imminent. Similarly when vehicles are accelerating down a slip road into the traffic flow.
I emphasise that our cars cruise between 45-50mph, I wouldn't consider taking anything like my Kenilworth on a motorway again as its cruising speed is about 40mph.
yours comments will be appreciated.
Regards
Brian
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Post by Ian Leggett on Dec 29, 2006 21:58:39 GMT 1
As you will see in the Drivers Code this point of distance is covered. In the Anglia Run which we do each year we plan to leave safe distances so that moderns can safely overtake as normal. It is not that we cannot go faster than the 30mph we aim for but to see the area we are passing there is no point going faster. The only time we bunch up is on reaching a town when speed is not an issue but keeping the car in front in sight is reassuring.
I cannot say we have had any problems in the 10 years I have run this, you will always get the odd go faster person who has to be in front and will hoot as he passes but that would occur whatever you were driving if it was not on or above the speed limit. Experience shows that it is best to just ignore those types anyway. Regards Ian.
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Post by webmaster on Dec 30, 2006 1:52:52 GMT 1
Just a few lines based on personal experience.
1. I wouldn't ever take the 1919 car on the Motorway!
2. A thirties car on the Motorway is OK only if the road is very busy. The M25 in traffic is a case in point,
as no-one is doing much more than 45-50mph anyway.
3. If the Motorway is not congested and everyone is doing 75mph plus then no prewar car is safe.
4. I often see a trail of people behind me when traveling at 40mph on an A road, ( I can see them in my optional rear view mirror!) so naturally enough I pull over periodically to let the modern tin go past.
5. "Modern drivers" in the main are physically not equipped to overtake any slower moving vehicles on an A road because they have never been taught the overtaking manouvre and therefore regard it as unsafe. These poor, though patient, morons therefore appear to have no choice but to follow me at 40mph or much slower, rather than take the "risk". Whilst I am proceeding at the best speed I can make, I see many, many, occasions when the car(s) behind could have and should have overtaken, but they don't, because they don't know how. It is therefore their fault - not mine - that a queue builds up behind me.
6. The contributor who reckons he can proceed at 50mph in his Austin 7 clearly has never tried to stop it from that speed, when he has had to try the brakes at that speed he will know to proceed more gently in future!
7. None of these rules apply to Alan Kingston anyway since he is renowned for going everywhere at 70mph!
A happy new year to all Forum contributors
Regards,
Phil
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Post by falmouth on Dec 30, 2006 13:57:36 GMT 1
In reply to the webmaster's comments I certainly agree with points made in paras. 1-5 and 7, I do note,however, that at least on the M5 which I travel on regularly with my modern that the inside lane is invariably empty except for the occasional "heavy" so we in our vintage vehicles could really occupy that wasted space, couldn't we? No only jesting really.
As to point 6, I do object to his comments on the Austin Sevens being able to travel at 50 mph but not having the braking power to match! If the brakes are adjusted correctly and maintained properly they will work just as efficiently as those on any pre-war Standard. I wouldn't ever drive at that speed if I didn't have the confidence to stop. If and when you come to Cornwall I will give you a demonstration.
Kind regards,
Brian
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Post by webmaster on Dec 31, 2006 13:36:18 GMT 1
OK Brian, yours are obviously well adjusted! But I hope you will forgive me a little bit of controversy as it does give me the opportunity to write again that I was looking for If anyone has Bendix brakes on a Standard you too can make your car stop by using the advice in this booklet: www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/club/Regalia/newregalia6.htmHappy new year Motoring Regards, Phil |
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Post by Ian Leggett on Dec 31, 2006 22:31:14 GMT 1
Now that we have this subject in full swing has anyone else got a subject that needs an airing and wants to enter a BLOG. Keep it motoring (preferably Standard) and all forum users please give us your opinion. Keep the Standard flag flying in the New Year. Regards Ian.
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Post by 1957steve on Jan 1, 2007 20:01:01 GMT 1
On the rare occassions that I have driven my 1927 Standard on motorways (which is really unavoidable when travelling from Bristol to S.Wales as it is not amphibious!) I have used an amber warning beacon which I clip to the rear of the car and run the wires to the battery with crocodile clips. However motorway driving is still not a pleasant experience! I too will not be taking my car to the International rally Brian, but for a different reason.For some inexplicable reason the date has again been moved forward to the one weekend when I have to work.As this is the second year out of three this has happened I am seriously considering selling my Standard and buying a different marque whose annual rally I will be able to attend regularly. Regards,Steve
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Post by webmaster on Jan 1, 2007 23:14:09 GMT 1
I can't believe what I am reading, I hope this is tongue in cheek!
Venues for National rallies are of course dependant on the availability of sites and organisers - and it isn't always possible to book the same weekend each year.
I will be extremely suprised if you can find any marque that will guarrentee the same weekend each year, but good luck to you.....
There is another way of ensuring you have a date, and place, suitable for you Steve and that is to volunteer to organise the rally yourself. We are not exactly inundated with volunteers - but will you be prepared to take on the challenge in 2008 I wonder ?
Regards,
Phil
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Post by Ian Leggett on Jan 2, 2007 0:18:51 GMT 1
Perhaps I can give an input into the International Rally dates. As I am organising it I took on board requests to bring it forward a week as it clashes with some other major events and that many members would like to attend both. So that is what I did. We do try to please and we do try to vary the venue and the region to give everyone a chance to be within 100 miles of home. It is a good opportunity to make it one of your weeks annual holiday (as we have done for several years) and there is certainly plenty of places to visit in this years location.
Go on give it a go, a list of accommodation addresses will be in the entry form in the next Standard Review. Regards Ian.
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Post by tinawalker on Jan 2, 2007 14:18:44 GMT 1
 Tina's ''twopennyworth''. Well I have been driving for over 49 years now, (that's almost half a centuary) and ALL my cars have been classics - never having owned a new modern one. Ever since motorways were invented I have driven on them whenever I have had the need to do so, and have not come to grief in over 3-1/2 million miles of accident free driving. I always try to keep a good stopping distance from the thing in front. What's roaring up behind I can do little about. What really does bug me though is the foreign lorry/coach drivers who have never seen a Standard before, coming right up to about 3 feet behind my bumpers and leaning over the steering wheel trying to read the name off the back. That IS scary. Apart from that I just get on with it, and let them behind pass on. Getting to our rally site this year (3 miles from my home) can almost be got to avoiding most motorways, or at last the worst of them. And the A14 on a busy Friday may well be included as being in the worst of them. Having said that I have regularly driven up and down that road since it was built without coming to grief. The A14 by the way will take members from the west almost to within a few miles (6) of the site of this years rally. So, from the M6 M1 junction, it is just follow the A14 A10 signs rigidly all the way - and no map reading required. Outside the usual rush hours, these roads are actually not too bad - if a bit busy at times. and there are several cross country routes where a slower car might wish to choose to get here. As Ian and Phil says, the club just simply cannot guarantee having the rally on a certain date to ensure one member can make it. Selling ones car should NOT be the option - perhaps rearranging the work schedule might be a better bet. I use my Pennant on the M11 etc quite regularly as well as the A14. "What are you lot men or mice"? Squeek up! Tina
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Post by 1957steve on Jan 2, 2007 18:24:32 GMT 1
Hi Phil,
Before your sarcasm overtakes me please note that I am merely expressing my disappointment at being unable to attend the International Rally again. I am unsure if it is worthwhile spending a large proportion of my income on a car whose annual rally I am regularly unable to attend. I strongly believe that as the owner of a vintage car I should use it as was intended when it was built,not keep it as a museum piece,which I do attending rallies all over the country (except when it is off the road due to my heavy right foot getting carried away!). Whenever I have had a Standard on the road I have attended the International Rally. I even overheard comments being made at Scarborough doubting the sanity of Bristol members driving 8 hours to attend the rally.
The person making said remarks presumably didnt realise they were not only being offensive but that there would be no rally if no-one was "mad" enough to attend.
You may also be interested to know that I offerred to help with the 2006 International as soon I knew it was going to be held in the South West-an offer that was not taken up. I promote the Standard Motor Club and Standards in general whenever I can and recently did some work for a club stand at considerable expense to myself so I find your sarcasm somewhat unneccessary and offensive. Regards,Steve
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Post by webmaster on Jan 2, 2007 23:07:32 GMT 1
I have re-read my comments and can see nothing offensive or sarcastic in them. Clearly you dont agree - so I apologise unreservedly.
Just to put things in perspective, I have supported all Standard events for the last 30 odd years or so and that includes rallies on days and at places that didn't suit me either. The fact that I couldn't make one event ocassionally has never prompted me to even think about selling any of my Standards.
As you appear to be out of pocket doing work at a show for the club, please make a receipted claim to the Treasurer who will reimburse you. You should not be out of pocket for this.
Regards,
Phil
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Tina's ''twopennyworth''. Well I have been driving for over 49 years now, (that's almost half a centuary) and ALL my cars have been classics - never having owned a new modern one. Ever since motorways were invented I have driven on them whenever I have had the need to do so, and have not come to grief in over 3-1/2 million miles of accident free driving. I always try to keep a good stopping distance from the thing in front. What's roaring up behind I can do little about. What really does bug me though is the foreign lorry/coach drivers who have never seen a Standard before, coming right up to about 3 feet behind my bumpers and leaning over the steering wheel trying to read the name off the back. That IS scary. Apart from that I just get on with it, and let them behind pass on. Getting to our rally site this year (3 miles from my home) can almost be got to avoiding most motorways, or at last the worst of them. And the A14 on a busy Friday may well be included as being in the worst of them. Having said that I have regularly driven up and down that road since it was built without coming to grief. The A14 by the way will take members from the west almost to within a few miles (6) of the site of this years rally. So, from the M6 M1 junction, it is just follow the A14 A10 signs rigidly all the way - and no map reading required. Outside the usual rush hours, these roads are actually not too bad - if a bit busy at times. and there are several cross country routes where a slower car might wish to choose to get here. As Ian and Phil says, the club just simply cannot guarantee having the rally on a certain date to ensure one member can make it. Selling ones car should NOT be the option - perhaps rearranging the work schedule might be a better bet. I use my Pennant on the M11 etc quite regularly as well as the A14. "What are you lot men or mice"? Squeek up! Tina