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Post by ukmarc on Feb 16, 2020 10:51:25 GMT 1
Good morning Folk, Can anyone recommend a recon company in the UK for my steering box please?
Many thanks Reverend Marc Geraghty
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Post by markaren76 on Feb 17, 2020 21:30:42 GMT 1
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Post by ukmarc on Feb 19, 2020 20:17:52 GMT 1
Massive prices long lead times on the several companies ive approached. Soooooooo.
Has anyone a schematic of said box please im gonna have a go myself π€ he who dares wins and all that ππ» cushty πππ
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Post by petefoster on Feb 20, 2020 10:11:49 GMT 1
You're best bet would be to obtain a Standard 8 parts book to show all the component parts & the Standard 8 & 10 workshop manual which describes how to take them apart. If you haven't got these I'm sure the club has them in the publications section.
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Post by rlubikey on Feb 20, 2020 15:09:15 GMT 1
Marc, I've never had to do this, so good luck giving it a go. If it's any help, this has been discussed recently on the TR Register forum - TR2 Steering Box rebuild questions and in particular, one person mentions a pictorial guide - TR2-3B Steering Box Rebuild. I know this is TR2, not a 10, but I imagine the principals are similar, if not identical. I keep an eye on these sort of things as one day I'm going to have to have the Atlas steering box sorted. The Revington sprung peg modification sounds interesting as the Atlas suffers from a slack spot in the middle and I wonder if it might be adaptable to other steering boxes such as your 10 etc. Hope this is of some help. Cheers, Richard
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Post by Phil Hetherington on Feb 22, 2020 1:28:15 GMT 1
Richard, I believe all worm and nut type steering boxes are βlooseβ in the straight ahead position, which is why you should only check for play in the system on full lock. Itβs something to do with the geometry and not necessarily indicative of a problem.
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Post by ukmarc on Feb 22, 2020 11:56:52 GMT 1
Richard, I believe all worm and nut type steering boxes are βlooseβ in the straight ahead position, which is why you should only check for play in the system on full lock. Itβs something to do with the geometry and not necessarily indicative of a problem. That gives me a bit of a clue πππ»
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Post by ukmarc on Feb 22, 2020 17:25:53 GMT 1
Would i check for play with wheels off the ground? And are they Burman steering boxes? Heeeellp
Reverend Marc Geraghty
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Post by rlubikey on Feb 22, 2020 20:01:13 GMT 1
Marc, I believe your 10, my Atlas and the TRs are all Burman boxes. I don't know if they are exactly the same box - perhaps someone else knows about this?
Thanks Phil. I always wondered why in old films where they have a scene driving a car with back-projection (i.e. it's filmed in a studio) the protagonist is wobbling the steering from side to side, even though the vehicle is obviously travelling straight ahead.
Cheers, Richard
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Post by marshman on Feb 22, 2020 21:56:51 GMT 1
The 8/10's were fitted with two different steering boxes. Burman or Cam Gear. They are interchangeable. I have never seen a Cam Gear steering box on a 8 or 10 and all my cars have Burman boxes, but the later Service manual and Parts book refer to both types. So the first task is to identify which is fitted to your car. Identification is easy as they are quite different looking. The Burman box has a square end cover plate held on with four bolts, the Cam Gear one does not. I have attached a picture of the burman box and exploded views of both sorts. The Burman box (which I guess Marc's one most likely is) is a "worm and nut" type box. This has a worm (spiral) with a steering nut that slides along as the steering wheel is turned. The nut has a slot in the top. A peg at the end of a short lever on the top of the rocker shaft assembly locates in said slot. As the nut moves along the worm when the steering wheel is rotated it moves the peg and hence rotates the rocker arm. Wear in these boxes is mainly on the rocker shaft, predominantly on the lower bush. The club did have a limited stock of shafts and bushes, but they now appear to be sold out. To complicate things further there is a early and late version of the box - The early bow had a smaller diameter set of splines onto the steering arm. So if you get a replacement box then check the steering arm will fit. There is an adjustment on the top plate of the box which removes up and down play from the rocker shaft and I suspect also from the nut and peg - peg is tapered so wear can be taken up. Shims on the end plate are used to take up any "end float" in the worm. This shouldn't wear as there is a ball race at the end. I have always found it sufficient just to adjust the screw on top of the box. New worm and nut will be like the proverbial hens teeth! The Cam Gear box is a worm and peg type - similar in design and principle to the one used on the TR2/3. Here there is no steering nut, the peg on the rocker shaft sits directly in the spiral of the worm. Adjustment is the same as for the Burman box. The club does have a worm for sale in the webshop should yours be worn. The rocker shaft is different from the one in the Burman box. According to the parts book the peg is (was) available separately, which seems sensible as it is likely to suffer more wear than the one in the Burman box. The TR2/3 box is much bigger than the 8/10 box, the 8/10 box is really quite small as steering boxes go. The TR box also has the steering tube fitted onto it and the steering column is attached to the worm, on the 8/10 the worm shaft is short and has a spline and a "flexible" coupling joins it onto the the steering column, finally there is a stator tube which passes right through the box for the horn and indicator wires. As already stated the main wear point is the rocker shaft bushes and possibly the peg - if the box has been leaking and the oil level is low than the peg being at the top of the box will be starved of lubrication and wear will be accelerated. As a first step before committing to replacing the box or going to the expense of a rebuild I would determine where the play is. You really need two people, one to "wiggle" the steering wheel and the other to examine what is happening. Wear in the worm/peg (cam gear box) or worm/nut/peg (burman box) can to a large extent be detected by gentle moving the steering wheel one way until movement or the rocker shaft is seen or felt (I prefer to put my fingers where the shaft exits the box as the slightest movement can be felt). Then note the position of the steering wheel and gently and slowly move the steering wheel the other way until the point where movement of the rocker shaft is just felt. Note how far the rim of the steering wheel has moved. On a good steering box I would expect the rim of the steering wheel to move around 1/2", certainly less than 1". NOTE there well be more "play" in the whole steering than this but we are just looking at play in the worm/pg bit. If this is OK then get your helper to rock the steering wheel side to side quite firmly. This time observing the end of the rocker shaft where it exits the steering box. Any wear in the bush will be evident as the rocker shaft will be moving side to side taking up the clearance without actually moving the front wheels. Do not confuse the rocker shaft moving due to wear in the bush and end float (which can usually be adjusted out). If all that lot seems OK and you have more than 3" of play at the rim of the steering wheel (maximum allowable in an MoT and hence legally for a road worthy car MoT exempt or not, though on an 8/10 box you should really be looking for less than 1 1/2"), then look elsewhere for play. Places to look: 1. The steering idler is the first place to look - new idler "Pins" are available from the club. 2. The two pins either end of the tiebar that the idler arm and steering arm attach to, the originals are mounted in rubber which fail with monotonous regularity - mine used to last about 25,000 miles when in daily use. 3. Track rod ends - both ends and sides (four to check in total) 4. Lower trunnions, play here can give the illusion of play in the steering if they are really worn. 5. Top ball joints - unlikely to be that worn but worth checking whilst you are there. 6. Top and buttom fulcrum bushes (2 at the top and 2 at the bottom) both sides. 7. Finally, check the wheel bearings as well, excessive play can also appear as play in the steering. All the checks apart from the wheel bearings should be done with the car resting on its wheels. Burman Box
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Post by marshman on Feb 22, 2020 21:59:07 GMT 1
Burman box exploded view
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Post by marshman on Feb 22, 2020 21:59:59 GMT 1
Cam Gear Box exploded view
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Post by marshman on Feb 22, 2020 22:00:35 GMT 1
TR2/3 Box
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Post by ukmarc on Feb 23, 2020 0:22:41 GMT 1
Thank ypu so much. I think mine is of the camgear type will verify tomorrow πππππ»ππ»ππ»
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Post by marshman on Feb 23, 2020 10:01:09 GMT 1
Marc, If yours is the Cam Gear type then could you kindly post a picture as I have never seen one in a 8 or 10.
Thanks
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