advice for novice

[simonsanders]

Would any of you Standard Motor Club members be kind enough to take time to give me a little advice on buying my first 'old car'?
I live near St Andrews in Fife. I have been fascinated by the ads I have seen recently in a classic car magazine in the dentist's waiting room (long treatment - several visits - it's true!). As I am approaching my 60th birthday later this year I was attracted by the idea of selling my motorbike and getting a car the same age as me - made in 1946.

I have no mechanical experience, no tools, and no real idea how a car works - but I am keen to learn, and thought that an old car might be a good way to do so and enter a whole new world. I want something small, straightforward, and NOT a valuable investment.

My eye caught an ad for a blue Standard Tourer 1946 currently on sale. I imagine many of you will have seen the ad and maybe even know the car. Hence me posting this message here. To the uninitiated it looks like fun.

Help!

1. How will I know whether the car is OK/genuine?
2. Will I ever be able to use it? Or is it just for show events, and are there any in Scotland?
3. Will my lack of mechanical know-how be a problem or do you think it's something I could learn on?
4. Is storage difficult?
5. Am I mad?

Yours

Simon Sanders

[tinawalker]

Hi Simon. Well you do pose some questions. First question from me has to be if you do have a car driving licence? I have heard of people learning on motorcycles, and never getting a car licence. Obviously, you would need a car licence to drive one.

Most people your age would possibly have had several cars, and looked after them themselves at least up to a point. Hence the question. Buying a good 'classic car' is usually just down to common sense really. A classic car can be quite easily maintained by a DIY owner - Standards definitely can. (I am a retired lady who looks after my 3 cars virtually all by myself,and all outside to boot, so don't be afraid - it can be done) Modern cars can't be done easily,as they need computers to diagnose almost any problem. Classic cars don't need computers, just as I said a bit of comon sense. If you do buy a 1946 Standard, the cheaper one to run is the 'flying eight' h.p., but if more go/seating /boot space is wanted there isalways the 10 /12/14 etc h.p. models. The 'flying' model name came from the union flag mounted on the top of the radiator grill. You might need to seek advice from someone you can trust to go with you to look at it for you and to express a second opinion. Very obviously these cars should look good, and as they do have chassis are very tough and durable. Chrome should be good as it is very expensive to have it all redone.

Standard engines and mechnics are likewise 'built to last'. If you intend to drive it regularly, you don't want to buy an old rust bucket which has sat in an open shed near a beach for 30+ years, as it would cost a bomb to put right, (I can vouch for that). One that has been used regularly can often be a better buy than one that has sat in a shed for years even if it's mileage is low. However, a car that has been used regularly and well looked after, and most have been, should at least be useable and fit for purpose.
A recent MOT will help a lot to determine if it is in reasonable mechanical condition, but not an absolute gurantee. I own 2 Standards and a Triumph, (basically the same company) and use them regularly, as both show cars and to go to work in. Most of our type cars have various workshop and parts manuals, many of which can be got through the club sources, a lot cheaper than form commercial ones. Ask if the car has all the handbooks with it. The Standard Motor Club, also has spares officers, who look after the supply of parts or often know where to point you at to find them. A lot of parts are not exclusive to each model of car, but are often used in others as well, so can be had. Look in e-bay where there is often such parts for sale. Regular servicing is just a routine, which you have to go through -so you do need at least a basic tool kit if you don't already have one. For our cars, do not go buying metric tools, as ours are not metric cars. Use imperial (ie Inches etc) tools, which still can be had new, although car boot sales often turn them up at a fraction of the cost. A good leaver arm hydraulic jack (these days they are cheap enough, at about 20 pounds or so), and I also have a pair of car ramps to run them up on, to do various jobs underneath it.(oil and filter for example). A couple of axel stands are also a must if you intend to work underneath it, to keep you safe if the jack should fail. You can folow the basic instructions for maintenance in the handbooks, which cover most of what you might ever need to keep one going. Old Standards are fine cars, well thought of. and pretty reliable if cared for properly, so they could be used (as mine are) on a fairly regular basis. The pre 1950 cars all have semaphore indicators as standard, whch few modern motorists can even recognise or understand what they are for. If you need a car for regular use in modern traffic, a later saloon of the mid 50s onwards, mostly do have flashing indicators, and have hydraulic brakes - where the earlier ones have mostly cable or rod brakes, and need more care with stopping (ie no tailgating other cars with it, as they can stop faster than you can - so learn to keep your distance - and patience). These cars are different to modern hardware, they will get you there all in their own good time, and will turn heads wherever you go with it. They don't need to be in pristine condition to go to classic car shows either, (but nice if they are) unless you are an obsessive trophy hunter/collector. They are a lovely different way to go for a trip to the beach on a Sunday in the summer (or to work in) .

So I would say go and have a good look at it, with a second opinion in tow, get a roadtest on it if possible, and ask about it's history. There are several Standard owners in Scotland. Any way, Good luck and do join the club if you buy it, as it is very beneficial, and you can even get far cheaper insurance if you do.. Regards Tina.

[webmaster]

Tina has said it all,m mostly.

An Eight is just 1052cc so isn't going to beat anything modern away from the lights. And some are restorations but unfortunately there are bodges too. So in addition to taking someone with you I would insist that you drive it to make sure you are happy with the pace. St. Andrews isn't motorway capital of the world, so if you intend to use it locally it will be fine, but don't expect to go continental touring in it - unless you have a week to get to Dover.

That said, a Swiss Member came from Zurich to our National Rally this year (1570 miles return) which says something about how he trusts the reliability of his Flying 8!

The car is no more difficult to store than your bike, though it needs a bit more room. Why store it? It will benefit from regular use in the Summer months and starting occassionaly in the winter too.

If you want to email our registrar at [e-mail], he will be able to tell you what we know of the car. Unfortunately, he doesn't read this forum.

Regards,

Phil

[Simon Sanders]

Thank you Tina for such a thoughtful and encouraging reply - I really do appreciate the time and trouble you have taken. Yes, I have driven all my life on 2 wheels and 4, but am still a bit of a nervous bodger when it comes to mechanics - and have been known even to forget to put oil in an old horsebox we had once, with disastrous consequences! At least I learned that lesson.
You have given me lots of really good advice, and I am much encouraged. I'll wait to see whether any other members suggest anything ........ and then I think I might go for it! I advertised my bike for sale today - awful!

Thank you

Simon

[Simon Sanders]

Thank you Phil also. More very helpful advice. I will certainly contact the registrar. You have said all the things I wanted to hear!

Yours

Simon

[tinawalker]

Always glad to be of help. Tina. P.S. - I am a Scot and still ride a 2 wheeler as well in the Summer mostly.

[tinawalker]

Hi again. Further to my last reply. When you are new to fettling cars like ours, or not too sure of it, just do one job at a time, and finish it, before you start pulling anything else to pieces. Make sure you lay out all the bits you remove in one place, ( an old tin tray with a clean cloth on it will keep the bits together and stop them rolling off under something), and when the job is done there should be no bits left over that have not been intentionally replaced with new items, (and the replaced items should be placed away from the new ones). If you have eg., a bolt left over that you can't account for, go look see where it is from - before you begin the next job. Where possible, "do the job once and do it right". Also - " WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS - READ THE INSTRUCTIONS", but you will need a good workshop manual first. If you dont fully inderstand what it is telling you, swallow the pride and ASK someone who knows. (Fellow club members eg. ) I often ask our Ian Leggett (or the Webmaster) for advice - they know a lot about Standards so trust them. Regards, Tina

[P.Ging (1939 Std 8 Tourer)]

Simon,

I think I have seen the car that you are referring to.... lovely blue colour.

With regards to the supplier I think that you could communicate with Alan Kingston on this forum as I believe that he purchased a similar model from the same supplier (of course I could be wrong) .... just to get a feel for the people selling. Alan is the man who was "speeding" at the international rally.... in his Standard 8.

I have had a 1939 Flying Standard 8 Tourer for the last year and I can tell you that it is a beautiful driver.... very smooth and can do speeds over 50 mph.... and mine has only a 3-speed gearbox. So it is a car for driving .... better enjoyed on the back roads. On Sunday last I completed a rally of over a 100 miles .... no problems. I have done over 1000 miles since I got the car.... so it is a car to drive.

In the last year I have had no mechanical problems...(touch wood) but I have tinkered with little bits purely out of interest. Most things are easy to get at. .... and if you get any problems there are a wealth of people (Ian and Tina) who are only too willing to advise on the best way to deal with them.

An so if you go for the car please get in touch and I can send you scans of roadtests etc related to the car.

Best of luck, Pat

[alankingston]

Hello Simon,

I saw Pat Ging's message in reply to your enquiry. The dealer (www.classic-sportscar.co.uk)selling the blue 8 Tourer is the one I bought my Tourer from (he had three 8s at the time). When I went to see the cars I took a friend with me (Pete) who has about 50 years experience looking after, and tinkering with cars. I followed his advice and bought what he considered to be the best of the three. The blue car was nice but needed a few things sorted. The hood was patched in one place. and quite worn, as was the interior. Pete had some concerns about the carb, the trafficators, and a few minor issues.

Obviously you're not going to get a perfect car, but the price is quite high and if you were interested you could haggle. I found the dealer business-like to deal with. I bought from a dealer, knowing it would be fairly expensive, because as a novice I wanted a car that I had confidence in, and could use straight away. It's still a 'let the buyer beware' situation and that is clear from the dealer's contract of sale.

I've been delighted with my puchase. There's a couple of issues to be sorted over the winter. I've serviced the car, and adjusted the brakes (after getting advice at the Rally), and I must say it is great fun to drive, and gets a lot of attention. The flexibility of the engine makes it very easy to drive in modern, urban traffic conditions.

The key when shopping round for a classic car if you're knowledge is limited, is to take an expert with you. They won't look at the car through rose-tinted glasses, and know what to look, and listen for. Getting an informed, unbiased opinion improves the odds of you buying a good car.

Sorry if I went on a bit, but hope the comments are some help to you.

Best wishes, Alan

[Simon Sanders]

Thank you Pat and Alan for such helpful replies. (what a great club this is!)
You have identified the car correctly - I spoke to Nicky Paul- Barron yesterday and apparently they are not ready to sell the car until they have got to the bottom of an oil-pressure problem, which they are confident of overcoming with a little time.

A friend of mine who happens to live not far from Amersham will be contacting Nicky to go and see the car - he has had an old Lagonda and currently has a 1947 Bentley and a Morris Minor convertible, so has some experience. This will at least save me the trip down to London from Scotland if the car really isn't any good.

I'll keep you all informed - and thank you again for your trouble.

Simon

[simon sanders]

simonAs a courtesy to those of you who replied to my earlier messages, I can update you by saying that a good friend of mine has now been to see the Standard 8 in question, and was not convinced by some aspects of the car, nor by the information given by the seller - and the car was still not driveable. In his words, I could do better. So I am still on the look out for a 1946 something! Simple, English, preferably tourer-type, and not an investment-type of price are the key words.