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Post by webmaster on Aug 11, 2015 23:09:40 GMT 1
Lets be clear:
The Commission Number 202604 DL puts this as a Standard 16/Light 6 of late 1933 or more probably early 1934. It is on a Standard 16 chassis, not an SS1 chassis. It is not an SS1, nor a Jaguar and should not be valued as such, sorry. A reputable auction house will know this.
The SS1 chassis was made by Standard exclusively for SS, and only SS cars were put on it. Jaguar cars were later. This is neither.
That said, it appears to be a nice car, judging by the photos, and possibly rarer than an SS, as so many Standard 16's have been scraped to keep an SS on the road. Unfortunately, that doesn't make it as valuable as a 1934 SS1
Phil Homer Historian Standard Motor Club
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Post by RhylBM2877 on Aug 12, 2015 14:50:34 GMT 1
Well said Phil. I am glad that someone is finally talking some sense.
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Post by Eternal Optimist on Aug 12, 2015 20:15:07 GMT 1
Well said Phil. I am glad that someone is finally talking some sense. Not sure who your comment is aimed at?
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Post by johndoc on Aug 12, 2015 20:53:01 GMT 1
Neither do I. All anyone can do here is give advise, based on the information supplied. I am probably not the only one who would like clarification on that last post by the thread starter.
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Post by magnet on Aug 13, 2015 13:29:11 GMT 1
Not wanting to join in any debate or criticism, as I judge it ( and I could be very much off the mark here!) that the original poster may well have been looking for "The owners club" endorsement that this car justifies having as many 0s added to an asking price as possible, and if correct, the club/this forum could be quoted in any subsequent negotiations. I feel good advice has been tendered in terms of seeking specialist auction opinion and releasing this car into the most appropriate auction with the necessary history ( since we have already established that some fundamental claims e.g dating - were incorrect). With adequate publicity this car will realise its best price on that day, and the seller can decide if it is to be sold or not. Of course, commissions will need to be paid in return for maximum publicity. I think what Phil has done here is to spell it out to the "owner?" what the true situation is, and in my book that needed to be made clear. Perhaps the wording of the following post could have better judged, but I would like to think that the intent was to applaud Phil's comments to the owners, and perhaps the owners earlier feelings of enhanced values, rather than criticising advice given by earlier posters which of course would relate to me as well, having initially found errors in what "the owner" had claimed. Perhaps that response to Phil's comments could be reviewed by the poster to good effect. Kind regards, Gareth.
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Post by RhylBM2877 on Aug 13, 2015 15:12:09 GMT 1
I am sorry if anyone has taken offence at my previous comment, but reading through the various posts, there did appear to me, to be rather a lot of £££££ signs going around in various peoples eyes, with regard to the SS Jaguar connection. I was applauding Phil who put the record straight on the historical point, and I hope that someone will buy it for what it is - a 1934 Standard 16 and not for any extra value that might be placed in the parts that could be used for an SS project. Robbing a perfectly good car for another project is just the same as robbing a original number plate of an early car to make a quick buck, and I have a very low opinion of people that do that.
Going back to the original post, then the best advice would be to go to a specialist auction house such as Bonhams.
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Post by angels67 on Aug 13, 2015 18:43:40 GMT 1
Thank you for all your comments made whether Positive OR Negative, We are NOT just looking at ££££££ signs here, we have owned the car since 1970 (a fact) it has great sentimental value attached to it and we just don't want to 'give it away' for stupid money, just to make it 'Very Clear' it DOES HAVE a SS1/Jag chassis which has been turned upside down to fit...it does have its own built in jacks, it does have a 16 cylinder engine, it is in immaculate condition...
I will let you all know the outcome of the valuation from the auction house...xxx
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bongo007
New Contributor
Posts: 13
Location: Down Under
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Post by bongo007 on Feb 11, 2016 13:57:28 GMT 1
I'd like to see this 16 cylinder engine.
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johng
Junior Contributor
Posts: 63
Location: North Devon
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Post by johng on Feb 11, 2016 14:57:25 GMT 1
As an update to this topic I did actually see this vehicle when I went to view the Morris 10 mentioned earlier in the thread. I hadn't realised quite how big a Standard 16 was but it in very good condition and appeared to be very original. The chassis, suspension and underside of the car was immaculate with not a speck of rust, or even dirt, to be seen. All I know since is that the car went in to a small auction near Holsworthy shortly afterwards. They also entered an immaculate looking Big 9 Van. I couldn't make the auction to see what happened to these vehicles but wonder if they will appear at any local car shows this year. I did end up buying the Morris 10, in itself quite a rare car being a Special Coupe model and the car is in excellent condition although in re-commissioning it, after about 30 years of little use since it was restored, I have replaced tyres, brakes, exhaust, hoses fluids etc. I would add that I purchased the car for a very reasonable price.
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Post by magnet on Feb 11, 2016 15:15:39 GMT 1
Very interesting John. Good luck with the very nice sounding Morris Ten. Re. the Standard 16 - a small provincial auction would not have seemed to me to have been the best route for car, or realisation of its true value, but..... Kind regards, Gareth.
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bongo007
New Contributor
Posts: 13
Location: Down Under
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Post by bongo007 on Feb 11, 2016 15:36:20 GMT 1
Nice looking Morris you got there John.
Did you get to the bottom of the SS1 chassis mystery while you were checking it out? I know the SS1 used Standard engines - were the chassis interchangeable also?
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johng
Junior Contributor
Posts: 63
Location: North Devon
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Post by johng on Feb 11, 2016 19:48:47 GMT 1
Hi Gareth & Bongo,
I was very surprised when I heard about the auction. As far as I know their cars were added in to another auction of tractors and cars from an elderly garage owner in a small village near Launceston. I doubt it had much publicity so I suspect the sale prices were low - I had suggested they asked one of the better auction houses for advice, as had others. As far as the car goes I believe it was a factory built 'standard' Standard 16, if that makes sense. It had all its original interior and was complete with its built in Jackall hydraulic jacking system.
The car had been part of a collection of cars, including my Morris 10, collected by a garage owner. The Big 9 van, if I remember correctly, was signwritten with his name.
He bought the Morris 10 in September 2004 but only used it for 3 months. This had been restored by another garage proprietor in Essex 15 years earlier, to a very high standard, and spent most of its time in his car collection.
I think all the Jaguar stuff came about from the fact that while Jaguar used some Standard 16 parts in their car some people began thinking that the car was a specially built model on Jaguar running gear, which it clearly wasn't. I was told by the owners that there were also a lot of Standard parts and they promised to let me see them but they never got back to me.
I did promise them that if I took the Morris to any local shows I'd let them know, so if I bump into them again I'll try to find out what really happened to everything.
I'm very pleased with my Morris though, there are only 6 of the same model listed on the road by the Morris register, with only one other in the West of England. It still has its Wilcot Robot indicators, like a set of traffic lights on either side. They were banned by the Ministry of Transport a few weeks after mine was registered as they were said to be too confusing to others - trafficators were approved for use instead. On mine the amber lens are wired up as flashing indicators.
Hope this was if interest.
John
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Post by Phil Hetherington on Feb 12, 2016 18:44:21 GMT 1
Well! I'd never heard of Wilcot Robot indicators, but they sound rather fun to me. I think I'd have wired them up to give the option of original appearance at the flick of a hidden switch, so they could be demonstrated at shows. (Clearly using them on the road would be utter madness!) I found this, for anyone curious: www.alamy.com/stock-photo-wilcot-direction-indicator-29811514.html
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Post by magnet on Feb 12, 2016 18:56:26 GMT 1
Hello John and Phil, Yes, seen these interesting traffic light indicators before, and now quite rare and always originally associated with Morris, but would I be right in thinking a little earlier than mid 30's in their original introduction? The concept was sound but no one except the Morris owner had a clue about what the 3 lights were meant to depict! Hydraulic brakes on this John if I recall correctly, and seals were a little difficult to source, but I guess now well catered for by the club. First car I ever drove. 14 at the time and driving it down a back lane was a reward for helping to rewire it. Good and rewarding experience days, which stood you in good stead. Enjoy it John. Kind regards, Gareth.
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johng
Junior Contributor
Posts: 63
Location: North Devon
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Post by johng on Feb 12, 2016 19:32:46 GMT 1
Hi Phil & Gareth,
From what I've learnt the indicators started to be fitted to the 1933 Morris models. They were unique to Morris who had invested heavily in them. When they were banned, around April 1933, the story goes that thousands of them were buried at the factory and quite a few were bought by Gamages who went on to sell them for two and sixpence (12.5p in modern money) as childrens toys. My car is fitted with hydraulics, on 10" drums, so it stops incredibly well. Another, exciting??, feature of it is that the accelerator is in between the clutch and brake pedal. Not as bad as it sounds, I got used to it fairly quickly. I now drive 3 cars with different pedal layouts, auto, manual and Morris! This was another feature which was changed the following year to the more conventional layout. I've been wondering whether Standard ever used the centre throttle layout, I know that some car makers did but I really don't know the reasoning behind the different layouts and how they came to be standardised. I also have a 1933 model Standard Little 9 and it is interesting comparing them. The 9 came equipped with the Hunts trafficators, quickly taken over by Lucas and re-branded. Both cars are equipped as 12 volt Negative earth although later models of Morris, and I believe Standard, went back to 6 volt Positive earth, I've never understood why though. I've not had my 9 on the road yet so I can't compare performance but my Morris isn't too keen on hills. Even though it's 1292cc it only has a 1" SU, changed in 34 to 1 1/8" together with a lower axle ratio which I understand helped. I usually end up in 2nd gear at about 20 - 25mph on hills. On the flat it's about 50 mph and quite stable. I'm currently sorting out a slight steering problem with it but hope to have it back on the road again soon.
Regards,
John
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